There’s responsibility in teaching something to someone. And a lot of responsibility in teaching something to a lot of someones.
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There’s responsibility in teaching something to someone. And a lot of responsibility in teaching something to a lot of someones.
Suzuki Skeptic 
I like your site and am glad that you are questioning why there are changes to music and inaccurate sources of pieces. I do think the new editions try to sources pieces much more accurately.
It is important that we understand that Suzuki didn’t have the internet available to him as he developed his books. Scholarly information has changed in the last several years. He also may have had some bad transcriptions of songs that were collected from different sources. There were not Urtext “editions” in those days.
If not Suzuki’s Method, is there some other method you suggest teaching with? I dislike the “Essential Elements” books for strings because they change melodies (like Ode to Joy) to such simple versions that they are not worth playing. What’s Ode to Joy without a dotted quarter note, ties, and slurs? Useless, if you ask me! No book is perfect, but I think it is good to make sure that we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. There are some good things to be had in the Suzuki Method.
YES!!
We’re so lucky to be have all this information available to us at our fingertips.
No throwing out babies here! Have a look at my avatar and you can see what I have in mind.
Thank you so much for your comments.
I’m kind of a purist myself when it comes to making changes to major classical works, so I see where you’re coming from, but I have to disagree with your comment about Essential Elements. I could go on and on, but let’s see if I can keep this in a few short points.
-Essential Elements is a staple in beginning method books, and one of the most used in beginning school orchestra programs, and for a good reason. The beginning steps and sequencing are great, and it builds one concept or skill at a time, while constantly reviewing old stuff. Also, all of the good method books used simplified versions of our favorite pieces. If that’s a dealbreaker for educators, good luck finding good material to teach.
-Ode to Joy is a great melody to use at this point in the book, when students are learning to use their 4th finger to play A instead of their open A strings. But, at this point in the book, they have yet to learn dotted rhythms and slurs, and making the exercise musically accurate is WAY too much for a beginner at this stage, who is having enough difficulty maintaining the correct playing position. It would do more harm than good.
-Students need a taste of these masterworks for inspiration, for a glimpse of their possible future, and to keep them engaged instead of making them play mundane exercises and boring folk tunes, and because we can only hope that they will keep this music alive in future generations. If playing watered-down versions of melodies from these works will get them hooked while they’re young (it sure did for me!), then it’s totally worth it. By the way, a truly good teacher will have their students listen to the actual work, so they can learn about the real thing.
Now, I’m not talking with years and years of teaching experience, I’ve only just finished my violin performance and music education degrees, and most of my teaching experience is in Suzuki violin. But those years in school helped me form my belief that sometimes making changes to music, that was amazing left the way it was, for educational purposes, is okay. I’ll even go as far as to say it should be done, if music educators are striving to meet state and national standards and inspire an appreciation for all types of music in their students.
But collected works did exist (Brahms for example set the collected works of Schubert which was made available by Breitkopf & Härtel in the 1890s.) Yes, urtexts are a recent addition to scholarship butthe publisher plates were also available for quite some time. Perhaps this information was not available in Japan at the time of publication?
I find the method counterproductive, only emphasizing aural skills as opposed to aural and reading. There is also no proper instruction to shifting, bowing skills… i could go on. With that being said, I use the Sassmannshaus method and supplement it by book 3 with outside sources such as orlando cole’s shifting book, sevick bowing and student works like breval ect. I do not feel that any one strict method covers everything and teachers shoud ask themselves what this method is missing and fill in the blanks.
By the way, thanks for finding me on twitter! Am enjoying your blog!!!
I’m late in looking at this site, and your comment is certainly old. However, it appears that you think that everything about the Suzuki Method is contained in the music books when you say, “I find the method counterproductive, only emphasizing aural skills as opposed to aural and reading. There is also no proper instruction to shifting, bowing skills… i could go on.” Use of the Suzuki music books does not make one a Suzuki teacher. There is a lot of training involved, through which we (Suzuki teachers) learn to teach the things you criticize. Suzuki students DO learn to read music–and usually read very well. Although the new, revised, Suzuki books give more exercises for specific techniques, the books are still essentially collections of music in a specific order for learning skills. You MUST have the training or long discussions with a person who is trained to understand the method. Check out the Suzuki Association of the Americas online.
Thank you Suzuki Skeptic for your research and insight! Enlightening to say the least! Do you have the time or inclination to look into other mysteries, like the Becker Gavotte or Gretry Tambourin. I’m currently exercised by a piece in book 8 of the viola repertoire – a Vivaldi concerto in B-flat minor. Apart from the absurd key the music has a ring of authenticity, but I just can’t trace it!
Christine, please don’t expect to find the Suzuki Method contained within its books of repertoire. If you want to use it properly in your teaching the only way is to bite the bullet and get trained!
The scientist Albert Einstein, a friend of Dr Suzuki, is credited with saying “As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.” There is always more to find out! I do have the inclination to explore other mysteries, but alas not as much time as I’d like to do so. I have a substantial list of issues I want to explore or address, a few of which are fermenting this very moment, half baked, in a WordPress purgatory known as Drafts.
And so I encourage you to explore your own mysteries. It’s amazing what you can learn from the basic tools of the internet. Google, Youtube, IMSLP and Spotify have all yielded clues. I will, however, need to actually step foot into a decent music library at some point, hopefully soon.
I’m not sure if you’ve seen a source list. The ones I’ve seen are helpful, even if not totally accurate or complete. Also, just an idea, if it’s a piece from the original cannon, try searching for it in F minor (up a fifth). The Suzuki Method was developed as an approach to teaching Violin, so much of the cello repertoire is simply transposed a 12th lower than the original violin music. I suppose it’s the same for much of the viola rep.
Good luck and let me know what you find out.
Thanks! For some reason I wasn’t thinking Youtube! Viola d’Amore concerto in D minor RV395 – transposed into B flat minor (for some reason) and turned into a viola concerto. F minor violin concerto was the first thing I thought of but there’s only one I can find and that’s quite famous! I wish they’d acknowledge their sources! You can understand Suzuki’s originals as he probably had no way to trace their origins himself, but the viola books were compiled quite a bit more recently!
Might do some more trawling – it’s quite fun and not that difficult – and beats working!
LOL, I’m happy you found it! Thanks for reporting back. Listening now. Did you see this article written by Leon King, who edited the Ur-text edition of the Vivaldi viola d’amore music? http://violadamore.com/index.php/vivaldi-and-the-viola-d-amore.html
The largo is gorgeous, and really effective on the viola d’amore version I’m listening to. According to this article, the Suzuki folks weren’t the first ones to transcribe the piece as even Vivaldi himself wrote a version of the largo for violin in which he omitted the double stops…Although I’m willing to bet he didn’t set that version in Bb minor. Ouch!
Hi.
I just finished a big project with the Suzuki violin books, which may be of some interest to you. I understand that your primary interest is with the cello books, but there’s considerable overlap, I’m sure. I haven’t read all of your blog, so I don’t know what else you’re looking for, but I did find a good recording of the Marais Rondeau, and I am in the process of obtaining a score of the Gossec opera (Rosine).
Suzuki Violin Pieces in their Original Forms
http://www.markpolesky.com/suzuki/
Hi Mark,
I applaud you for your project. Excellent work. Thanks, too for the credit on the Gossec Gavotte listing. I’m wondering if I might not also merit one for your entry on the “Lully” Gavotte? The Charbonnier recording you found of it is terrific.
I was really interested to learn about “Rousseau’s Dream” and its connection to Go Tell Aunt Rhody through the set of variations by J.B. Cramer. My feeling is that the Cramer aria is much more similar to the Suzuki version than any version of Rhody I’ve ever heard–the only alteration from the Cramer is a simplified rhythm. If I were editing the volumes, it could seem logical to simply attribute the piece entirely to Cramer with the title “Rousseau’s Dream”. The Cramer aria is “inspired by” rather than written by Rosseau–a dream of the Rousseau, if you will. The real question, however, remains: where did Suzuki get this melody? Perhaps it came to him in a dream?
Would you do me the favor of uploading a scan of the Gossec to IMSLP when you receive it? I bet that I’m not the only one that would enjoy having a look.
I had momentarily forgotten about this blog, as well as my posts in draft and others I was planning to write. Thanks for finding it and for your comment. It has reminded me to keep going.
A few questions for you:
What version of the violin books are you using for reference?
Have you considered why the rhythmic structure of the phrases in Suzuki’s Lightly Row are (annoyingly!) different from each other, whereas in the German folk song the rhythm is similar?
What is your connection to the Suzuki Violin School? Why the interest?
If you’re interested in hearing them, I have other thoughts as well, but that’s all for now. Again, nice work.
I don’t know where Suzuki got the Go Tell Aunt Rhody melody. You could try searching WorldCat for “Rousseau’s Dream violin” and see what comes up.
Regarding the Gossec opera: I will upload the score to IMSLP if I can get permission from the library that is lending it. I don’t know if there are any restrictions with that, but I’ll let you know.
My connection to Suzuki: I’m a pianist (and occasional Suzuki accompanist), and ironically, this whole project started with a question I had with the Gossec Gavotte. I was playing through it one day, and in m.10 I felt that there ought to be some sort of echo (in the piano part) of the violin’s eighth notes from m.9. As a rule, I never trust transcriptions, so I wanted to check the original score just in case my intuition was right, and that’s when I realized that there would be value in finding the source material for the whole set.
Also, I did take Suzuki violin lessons when I was young, so there was some nostalgic interest as well. And when I finally heard things like the original Judas Maccabaeus chorus and the Hunter’s Chorus, I started to think, why are we not sharing these with the students? I probably would’ve played these pieces much more musically had I heard the original versions.
The books I’m using are: Volumes 1–5: individual piano accompaniment books, revised edition, published 2008–2010. Volumes 6–10: “Piano Accompaniments Volume B”, published 1980.
Regarding the Lightly Row rhythms: I never noticed that, but that is annoying! Suzuki’s rhythms fit neither the German original nor the conventional English words:
Lightly row! Lightly row!
O’er the glassy waves we go;
Smoothly gilde! Smoothly glide!
On the silent tide.
Let the winds and waters be
Mingled with our melody;
Sing and float! Sing and float!
In our little boat.
I don’t know who decided to alter the rhythms there, but one possible benefit is that it teaches young students to stay alert.
And lastly, yes I am interested in hearing your other thoughts!
Just a thought on Lightly Row rhythms… I have Japanese friends and students who tell me that Lightly Row is sung in Japan – in fact, most of the early folk songs in Suzuki’s violin book 1 are sung in Japan, along with a lot of other “Western” folk songs. I’m told the Japanese lyrics to Lightly Row match the rhythm in the Suzuki book.
My guess is that, as Suzuki was teaching Japanese children, he naturally used the rhythm fitting the lyrics that his students would have already been familiar with. A cursory internet search on Japanese children’s music turns up the fact that a lot of schoolchildren in Japan were taught translated versions of Western folk songs starting around the time of the Meiji Restoration, and that there was a push to return to teaching children these songs right around the end of WWII, which was around the time that Suzuki started teaching young children.
You are exactly right.
Teaching Japanese speaking children a Japanese folk song (or at the least a folk song whose words are in Japanese) is natural. But teaching English speaking children a Japanese folk song (or equivalent) is not. And herein lies an example of one of the major conflicts of the Suzuki system. The Suzuki ideal of Universality, that a Suzuki-trained student can go anywhere in the world and play together with any other (what could be more beautiful than the world making music together?), doesn’t always sync with the natural approach to learning music for any one student, instrument or culture. The American student would more naturally and easily learn the English version of the song, and this version with its short short long rhythm for phrases 1,2, and 4, is often used in other pedagogical materials such the English version of Baerenreiter’s Sassmannshaus Early Start series. But if American English-speaking children learned how to play the songs that they already knew and loved, how could they play together with the children from Japan, or Estonia, or Saudi Arabia?
March in G comes from one of Bach’s last cantatas, no 201 rings a bell but that might be wrong. I’ve played it with Gustave Leonhardt directing.
Have you questioned the Rigadoon? It appears in Playford’s Dancing master and appears to be pre-Purcell. Don’t quote me on any of the above as I’m writing this from memory, so could be slightly out.